Thursday, November 15, 2007

Thoughts on Wealth

In the book The Millionaire Next Door it states that most millionaires are first generation. It talks about how the second generation has the wealth given to them too easily, and they do not learn the principles that generated the wealth, thus with each generation more principles of wealth are lost. I think we are in a similar situation here.

Rich DeVos, Jay VanAndel, Helyne and Joe Victor were all there when the American Way Association was formed (the predecessor to Amway and Quixtar). Jody, Helyne and Joe's son, is very proud of the fact that he was there when it all started. Rich, Jay, Helyne, Joe and a handful of others started the American Way Association because Nutrilite was not treating them fairly, in their estimation. Because of the injustices they suffered, they built, almost from scratch, an extremely successful business. Each has passed their legacy on to the next generation. Wealth was not a problem (or at least up until this point). However, it appears that the principles that founded the American Way Association have been lost by the second generation.

I respect Jody a lot. Looking at it from his viewpoint, I can understand why he stays. It is his family legacy. If he even entertains leaving, it would literally destroy his family legacy. So he stays, hoping, as the IBOAI (and the ADA board before it) will be able to guide Amway to a successful future. According to Randy Haugen's statement, the board had been asking for certain changes since the mid 90's. I think Quixtar ended up being a distraction, a stall. A lot changed with Quixtar. A lot didn't change.

Originally, Amway appears to have been a great value at any income level. If you washed your clothes, or cleaned your own house, you wold be financially better off buying Amway products. But then the internet came and brought immense price pressures to the market. From what I can figure, before the mid 90's just about anyone could make it to 25% (Platinum, Direct), but you needed the system (books, tapes, seminars) to stay focused enough to make it much further. Now the money at 25% is bigger (with system income included), but the trek appears to have become more difficult.

I am amazed at how Orrin and Chris engineered a system to turn it around. The took the lemons and made lemonade, and not just for the "kingpins" as they are called. They were truly focused on the first circle, the new guy. When August 9th came this year, I heard that Quixtar was going to be upping the amount they give out. They did, but only for certain levels, and it was not the first circle that benefitted. It appears their strategy is, if we given enough of an incentive to the "kingpins" and even mini-"kingpins", they will figure out how to replace the people who have quit, and maybe add a few more.

I heard a guy by the name of Dexter Yager once say, "Sell to the classes, live with the masses. Sell to the masses, live with the classes." In other words, if you try to sell high priced products to a few people, you will never do as well as trying to sell a lot of low priced goods to the lower incomes. The Walton family (of Walmart fame) became the richest family in the world based on that principle, and Walmart became the first "largest company" that didn't actually make anything. Quixtar seems to be targeting middle-middle class (maybe upper-middle class) and higher. While I am somewhere in the middle class with my "95% income" I live in a lower-middle class (or maybe lower) side of town. Understanding that the difference between 95% and 5% is thinking has made me reconsider where I live, but when I first got started, it was frustrating to me and my group when they would start looking the prices.

I stated in an earlier posting the we do want to compete with Walmart. Here is why I think we do. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. But the percentage of people who are rich is shrinking quickly and the percentage of people who are poor is swelling quickly. Then there is the middle class, which is slipping more towards the poor than towards the rich. There was a study done in which they noted that when the government reported its inflation numbers at 3%, the real inflation felt by the average American was around 8%. The government did not include things like medical costs, insurance costs, etc. in their numbers, and this was before the double digit growth in medical costs we've seen lately. At 8%, the cost of living doubles every 10 years. I know my salary has not doubled in the last 10 years.

I think that is why our society has gone from single-income households to two-income households. As more people shift down in the income levels, they become more desperate. If a majority of the people are having a hard time getting by, history teaches us that they will be more easily swayed, with their votes, to vote for principles they would not have voted for two decades earlier. Universal Health Care, Guaranteed Housing, No Child Left Behind. You've probably heard of these things. They are nothing knew. Communist Russia promised all this to their people. A guarantee that you would not fall below a fairly high minimum standard of living, but where there is a floor, there is also a ceiling. The higher the floor, the lower the ceiling. If people from fifty years ago would look at the political agenda items today, they would claim the communist party is taking over.

There are two issues at heart here. The first is a shrinking market demographic, the one Quixtar is targeting. The percentage of people who fall into the market segment they are targeting is shrinking. The percentage of people who fall into the market segment that Walmart is targeting is growing. I would rather be in a growing market than a shrinking market. The growing market also has more incentive to build a business to get out. Not only are you statistically more likely to find a "hungry" guy in this larger market, but he is less likely to be "doin' good." I think that is why Quixtar is a revolving door of about 3 years. The really hungry get in but can't afford to stick to it much longer than that if they don't happen to register enough people who can afford to move volume.

The second issue is one of "make a difference." I am very concerned where this country is headed. I think it is the freest, greatest country in the world, but I think if we do not help rebalance the rich and poor in this country, it will be rebalanced by the government by popular vote, and the only way we can rebalance it is to teach the principles of wealth. Isn't that what Team has transformed itself into? (No, really, that is a serious question. I'm still trying to figure out what Team is transforming into, but it is looking much better than the Amway route at this point).

I believe in the free enterprise system. I believe in compensation relative to how much you excel beyond average. I don't want to see either eroded away any more than it has. I think that will only come with those who know educating the masses (not just the middle class) and giving them a reason (they own a successful business) to fight for those values.

I have no problem with Access Business Group (Amway) products as far as quality. Price is an issue for me, but I was buying 300 points per month for at least half a decade. I was buying hope because people I knew had become successful (before 1995). Since reading Randy Haugen's description of what happened in the mid 90's, I regret spending so much money when even the "kingpins" knew it wasn't working. I don't blame them, they were trying to course correct Amway/Quixtar. I don't blame Jody Victor for standing behind the IBOAI and Quixtar. They say the captain goes down with the ship. I just hope they don't take too many passengers with them. MLM has a bad enough name is as.

29 comments:

Quixtar Sucks said...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071101/lf_nm_life/wealth_millionaires_dc

By Belinda Goldsmith Wed Oct 31, 11:17 PM ET

NEW YORK (Reuters Life!) - Sitting on a million but still middle-class? New research has found that more and more Americans worth at least $1 million want luxury goods such as yachts but otherwise lead family focused, work oriented lives.

Private wealth specialists Lewis Schiff and Russ Alan Prince found the number of Americans with $1 million to $10 million had risen to 8.4 million households -- or 7.6 percent of U.S. households -- and was growing at 15 percent a year.

But instead of entering the echelons of the elite, these new millionaires adhere to middle-class values, earning their money rather than inheriting it, working 70 hours a week, and choosing neighborhoods based on the quality of schools.

"These are middle class people who are in the community and don't insulate themselves but they are different because they have managed to accumulate wealth," said Schiff, the president of private wealth consultant Advanced Planning Group.

"They spend their money on all the things that tie back to family values -- on the health and welfare of their family, career development, and as you move up the ladder they spend on leisure and luxury activities."
Schiff and Prince surveyed about 3,600 people -- 600 millionaires and 3,000 middle-class people -- to research their book "The Middle Class Millionaire: The Rise of the New Rich and How they are Changing America" due out next February.

They found that 89 percent of middle-class millionaires believed anyone could attain wealth through hard work.

*Note - this was accomplished without quixtar.

Tom Morris said...

On the article above:

There were 8.4 million households in the millionaire to decamillionaire status. That is less that 3%. The population increases at 2.5 million per year. The 8.4 is dwarfed in 4 years. For every new millionaire each year, there are two new people added to the population.

Most of the millionaires actually live in places where property values have skyrocketed, like Southern California. Most of their net worth is in real estate, and their mortgages show it.

Being a millionaire isn't what it used to be, especially in places like Southern California.

There are lies, damn lies and statistics.

Tom Morris said...

IBOFightBack posted some amusing stuff in the comments to Quixtar Lost My Cents.

IBOFightback - Fighting the Amway Myths said...

Tom, what is your source for the following premise?

The percentage of people who fall into the market segment they are targeting is shrinking.

such This article in the Washington Post suggests this isn't actually happening. If I recall, so does Paul Zane Pilzer's work.

Having said that, I'm on record myself as encouraging the corp. to come up with some more easily retailable (price-wise) products for IBOs.

rocket said...

Yeah, Paul Zane Pilzer is an FANTASTIC source of information.

One of Dexter's little bitches, IBOFB.

You'll have to do better than that. That's almost as bad as an IBO telling someone to check out the Nutrilite site to confirm how great it is.

Jackhole...

rocket said...

PS, IBOFB.

That's just one opinion.

Here's another.

According to your rules, if someone else wrote about it, and it supports my position, then I guess I win.

You're such a spinner, I don't know how you can be not dizzy enough to type.

http://www.patcleary.com/2007/05/pearlstein.html

IBOFightback - Fighting the Amway Myths said...

Paul Zane Pilzer one of Dexter's "bitches"? Good grief ... you are so blinded by your hatred of A/Q it's ridiculuous. It's particular ironic given we'e in a kind of wal-mart vs quixtar discussion and that Sam Walton himself was a fan. Get a clue.

Speaking of get a clue .... did you actually *read* the link you gave? It's in support of the article I linked to!

rocket said...

First of all, my point was it's an opinion, and there's lots of them out there. Period. Yes, I realize it was in support of your stance. Jeez, I'm not Tex. Maybe I even agree with the article.

Secondly, he's a popular author amongst your ilk because he speaks so highly of MLM. Anyone who agrees with Amway/Quixtar is automatically a credible source, according to the "leaders".

Anyone opposed, is not credible. Name an instance where this is not the case.

Keep spinning. Wanna take my challenge?

IBOFightback - Fighting the Amway Myths said...

well that's the pot calling the kettle black. You've just dismissed Pilzer because he supports MLM, ignoring his pretty impeccable credentials.

Name someone with similar credentials who thinks MLM is a scam.

rocket said...

Well hey!

I think the number of diamonds quitting is a good indicator of the opportunity.

As for credentials, Amway itself has admitted that some of the leaders make more from tools than they do products.

Secondly, less than 5% of the products moved were retailed to an end user.

I don't know what you think about that, but common sense should prevail.

What is good enough to say this is a scam?

The thousands who quit and lost money?

The thousands who have been prospected and said no?

The thousands of $ made on tool money?

The thousands of products that are overpriced?

The many websites that seem to hang around and get support from those who know?

The thousands of people who hate the name Amway?

The thousands who have quit and still don't buy the products because they are not competitive?

Shall I go on?

You have much faith in this business. Wanna take the challenge?

Sergio said...

Yes, common sense should prevail...

Thousands watch TV instead of reading a book... they must be right.

Thousands are sedentary instead of doing exercise... they must be right.

Thousands eat junk food instead of healthy food... they must be right.

Thousands smoke cigarettes, drink bear instead of avoiding addiction... they must be right.

Thousands exchange time for money, instead of living on passive income... they must be right.

Thousands live on one source of income instead of having multiple streams of income... they must be right.

Thousands make their money disappear instead of making it grow... they must be right.

Common sense is not common.

What you say is common sense, certainly prevails. But it should not.

IBOFightback - Fighting the Amway Myths said...

Rocket, I see you ignored my question about naming anyone with Paul Zane Pilzer's type of credentials that is critical of MLM. What, you can't come up with even one?

And this -

Secondly, less than 5% of the products moved were retailed to an end user.

Is a complete fabrication on your part. Pretty much by definition, somewhere close to 100% of A/Q products are retailed to an end user. The "less than 5%" is end users who have not elected to get the products at a cheaper price for whatever reason.

An end user is an end user, doesn't matter if they're paying IBO price or RRP. That's why the FTC and the courts pretty much always say "end user" or "consumer" rather than "non-IBO customer", which is what you are likely referring to

rocket said...

I didn't ignore your question, I laid out why you don't need an MBA or Doctorate of economics to explain why this business is not viable. Everyone can see it for what it is using common sense. My point is, people see this for what it is. What credentials do you need to not want to get mugged?

This is golden:

"The "less than 5%" is end users who have not elected to get the products at a cheaper price for whatever reason."

Do you listen to yourself? Paid less for whatever reason? Do people LIKE to pay more for stuff than they need to? Have you even read the lawsuit? This is where you go into semantics, because you know darn well what they were saying. Less than 5% were RETAILED TO A CUSTOMER is what the message was.

Again, you like to distort things so much, that your message changes.

A customer is someone who buys a product, and there is a severe lack of them in Amway. You know that, you just won't concede it. No need. The facts speak for themselves. Remember? The facts?

That is what you claim to have.

IBOFightback - Fighting the Amway Myths said...

I didn't ignore your question, I laid out why you don't need an MBA or Doctorate of economics to explain why this business is not viable. Everyone can see it for what it is using common sense.

Well, everyone that is except folk who do have Doctorates of economics who can see it's viable. Everyone that is except 80+ governments around the world. Everyone that is except the FTC. Everyone that is except the tens of thousands of people earning full-time incomes from their part-time businesses. Everyone that is except folk like Donald Trump, or George H W Bush, or Bill Clinton, all of whom have endorsed MLM.

Yeah, everyone who has commonsense. Uhuh.

My point is, people see this for what it is. What credentials do you need to not want to get mugged?

Unfortunately many people don't see it for what it is, they see it for what they, incorrectly, think it is. You're a classic example.

Do you listen to yourself? Paid less for whatever reason? Do people LIKE to pay more for stuff than they need to?

Uh, yeah. Perhaps they don't buy often so the membership fee doesn't make the discount worth it. Or perhaps they don't want to pay shipping, or perhaps they want to try it out first.

But guess what, dude, no, most people DON'T like to pay more for stuff than they need to - so they sign up as IBOs to get the stuff cheaper, and thus aren't in that 5%

Have you even read the lawsuit? This is where you go into semantics, because you know darn well what they were saying. Less than 5% were RETAILED TO A CUSTOMER is what the message was.

No, 5% retailed to an *outside* customer. IBOs are "end-users" as legitimate as any other. Even back in the 70s the FTC acknowledged the majority of Distributors did not build a business and the majority of products were purchased for self-use.

But then, I guess they're just one more of those examples of a "lack of commensense" huh?

Again, you like to distort things so much, that your message changes.

No, you're doing the distortion. You even said "end-user" in your original post, which is what I stated was false.

A customer is someone who buys a product, and there is a severe lack of them in Amway.

Really? So how do all those folk who "self-consume" get the products if they don't buy them? Does Amway give them away?

You know that, you just won't concede it. No need. The facts speak for themselves. Remember? The facts?

Yes, facts. Fact - what's important is sale to end-users. Fact - the FTC acknowledged back in the 70s the majority of consumption was "internal". Fact - the FTC confirmed as recently as this year that "internal consumption" was legitimate sales and even counted as retail sales. Fact - the MLM model has been endorsed by business leaders and academics and governments around the world.

That is what you claim to have.

And it's what you don't have.

rocket said...

The FTC and the 80+ governments around the world don't necessarily think the products are worth it, nor would they necessarily assume it's a great opportunity. Are most of Australia's government involved in Amway? Show me where Donald Trump, or George H W Bush, or Bill Clinton endorsed THIS MLM. There was the legend about Donald Trump floating around, but I have never seen proof, or even a clarification of what show it was. Typical IBO fable, spinner boy.

OK, what is it then? What SHOULD people see it as? I think it's safe to say lots of people think it's a loser of a business, and that the majority of those involved don't make money. That's why so many say no, and why so many quit. You won't even take my challenge, despite your claims that it is a good business. Maybe YOU'RE wrong. Ever think of that?

As far as people not buying stuff much, you're right. They don't. In fact, I believe 3.4% of the products run through were sold retail to an end user. Yet you think your explanation justifies that pathetic trend? Come on, you can do better than that.

So now buying from yourself is OK? You're just the president of your very own buying club? So answer me this then, spin boy:

THEN WHY DON'T PEOPLE STAY IN JUST TO BUY THE PRODUCTS? WHY, WHEN THEY QUIT, DO THEY STOP BUYING?

Get it yet? Can you answer that to yourself yet? If someone doesn't even want to buy from themselves because it's an idiot of a choice economically, why would a business based on that concept succeed?

The people that self consume are dreaming that they will get rich by doing so. When they see the light, they quit, and quit buying, as explained above, but which you fail to acknowledge. If the products were a good value, they'd renew to keep buying them. THEY DON'T.

66% of them QUIT EVERY YEAR.

The FTC doesn't say that it's the best business in the world, it says it's not illegal.

Again, if the governments think it's so great, how many of them are involved?

Don't confuse not against the law with the best way in the world to become a millionaire.

You're gonna have to do a little better at spinning than this.

IBOFightback - Fighting the Amway Myths said...

Nice little rant, rocket. Again, you seem to think something is legitimate if everyone is doing it. It's a business for anyone, rocket, not everyone.

A few comments though. You say -

In fact, I believe 3.4% of the products run through were sold retail to an end user.

That is false. In fact, close to 100% were sold retail to an end user. Of course, that's a tautology since by definition if it's sold to an end user it is retail.

So now buying from yourself is OK? You're just the president of your very own buying club?

Yes of course "buying from yourself" is OK. It's not IMO the optimal way to run a profitable business though, but as the FTC has clearly stated, there's no problem with it.

THEN WHY DON'T PEOPLE STAY IN JUST TO BUY THE PRODUCTS? WHY, WHEN THEY QUIT, DO THEY STOP BUYING?

They do stay in to buy the products. Plenty of people in my business (including myself for several years) who were/are not actively building the business but keep buying the products.

66% of them QUIT EVERY YEAR.

A statistic which has to be read in the context of the fact that 50% of folk who join never place an order after joining. Now, that says a lot about how bad IBOs are at getting new people started properly, but it also tells you that half of IBOs never even buy the products in the first place. So why be surprised if they don't continue?

Now, we were talking about folk who endorsed MLM, but you cowardly ran away from that and suddenly just wanted to talk about explicit endorsements of Amway, and self-righteously decided an endorsement only counts if they actually become IBOs. Ridiculous.

Many years ago Trump did say something about doing Amway if he started over, but it was reportedly not a serious comment. He does however explicitly endorse ACN, an MLM, and has even both endorsed the ideas of and co-written a book with that other favourite villain of the anti-mlm zealots, Robert Kiyosaki.

The rest of youre rant is basically your own little straw men. You can argue about them with yourself in the mirror.

rocket said...

But you still don't believe in it enough to take the challenge.

1. Prices

2. Tools

You know the prices aren't competitive, you won't admit it, is all.

Donald Trump has not endorsed Amway. That's what we're talking about, right?

66% quit every year. Do you have a link where it shows 50% don't order?

3.4% of the products were retailed to a customer of an IBO. Does that sound like a good business?

The way you talk, people are tripping all over themselves to buy Amway. They aren't.

You say I have straw men? It's easy enough to shut me up you know.

Refute that the high prices and tools are not a negative you can't get away from, and take my challenge.

Your lack of desire to prove me wrong on the viability of the business and the competitiveness of the prices is very telling.

IBOFightback - Fighting the Amway Myths said...

We were talking about people endorsing MLM, not just Amway. Guess what rocket, the best known MLM is non-other than Amway.

I never disagreed the prices are high. They are. Price to buy a Leer Jet is high too. Doesn't mean they're not worth the money and doesn't mean you can't sell them. "over-priced" and "high priced" are not the same thing.

The 50% not ordering is in the Billy Florence affidavit.

As for question of whether 3.4% retailed to customers of IBOs makes for a good business or not, sure it can. I know you don't agree, but most folk consider businesses that are 100% wholesale (ie no retail sales to customers) to be legitmate businesses.

As for your claim that the "The way you talk, people are tripping all over themselves to buy Amway. They aren't."

Did you answer my question about ESL? I've never said anything remotely like that. What I've said, often, is this is what the IBOs are for, and this is the type of product best suited to NWM - products that require an education before folk will buy them, but then create loyal customers. What you'll also find in the BF affidavit is that while half of new IBOs don't place an order, nearly a third of new IBOs renew. So over 60% of folk who place orders renew. We also know that less than a quarter of all IBOs ever sponsor anyone at all and less than 13% ever earn a bonus on downline volume. So what does that mean? An awful lot of folk who don't sponsor people, don't have a downline, but keep on renewing. Why is that do you think?

They like the products.

Tom Morris said...

They like the products.

Actually, they like their sponsor and they tolerate the products. If it were not for the personal relationship with their sponsor, and the hope of one day achieving their goals, they would quit. I know, I was in that boat for over half a decade.

Tom Morris said...

I've posted my response to:

Tom, what is your source for the following premise?

The percentage of people who fall into the market segment they are targeting is shrinking.

rocket said...

Thank you Tom.

"but most folk consider businesses that are 100% wholesale (ie no retail sales to customers) to be legitmate businesses. "

Yeah, but they aren't priced out of the market or else they don't survive. Amway has a bunch of people who don't know what they're doing, and just take direction from someone who has something to gain from their losses...and there are losses.

Why do you have to explain yourself so much over the prices?

Wal-Mart doesn't have to.

Mind you, they're a real business.

I doubt you are profitable, but once again, take my challenge and prove me wrong.

Bridgett's challenge is about product pricing. I take supplements and I buy stuff. I can prepare a list of stuff I'll be buying next month. Hook me up, if you think you can compete.

You can't, which proves my point.

IBOFightback - Fighting the Amway Myths said...

Actually, they like their sponsor and they tolerate the products. If it were not for the personal relationship with their sponsor, and the hope of one day achieving their goals, they would quit. I know, I was in that boat for over half a decade.

What a load of BS. I have folk in my group I "personally sponsored" nearly a decade ago, or whose sponsors have quit, and whom neither I nor any upline have barely spoken to since I left the country 7 years ago, and who don't go to any meetings or subscribe to any tapes and they still buy products.

My mother was buying amway products for years before I got involved, and it had little to do with who sold her the products.

This whole idea that there is no market for the products is simply absurd.

rocket said...

Absurd? Really?

Then why do diamonds quit? Obviously nothing to hang onto.

It's not a profitable business.

Take my challenge. Prove me wrong.

Sergio said...

You talk about diamonds quitting and then you go on to say it's not a profitable business.

Do you have an idea what it takes to qualify as a Diamond? A lot of volume.

Do you have an idea how much money a Diamond makes? A lot of money.

A lot of volume which generates a lot of money for the person moving that volume is profitable business.

Diamonds quit alright, but there are many possible reasons for making that decision.

If the decision is that they have, as you say, "no longer" nothing to hang to... What you are saying is that they had a profitable business but they no longer have it now.

Surely when things were going right it was because of their leadership and when things stopped going right it was because of Amway.

The argument against this reasoning is that when their business stop being profitable, as you say, some other guy qualified as Diamond in the same country, with the same people, with the same challenges, with the same high priced - high performing products, and everything else.

How could this be? The quitting Diamond did not have what it takes to keep on qualifying as Diamond. He got what he deserved.

rocket said...

Did you know there have been diamonds that bought the pin to get the level, then dropped right off?

This way they could earn money on the speaking circuit.

Do YOU know what it takes to be a diamond?

Are YOU going to be a diamond?

Do YOU think your prices are competitive?

If you honestly answered yes to any of those, then go ahead and take rocket or bridgett's challenge on my blog.

Put you faith in your "business" to the test.

Sergio said...

>Did you know there have been diamonds that bought the pin to get the level, then dropped right off?

>This way they could earn money on the speaking circuit.

No I don't know. If someone decides to buy a Diamond position I would be a terribly dumb financial decision on their part. The money they would make in the speaking circuit would not pay for their investment.

And if as you say, someone did that, his decision reflects his values. MLM companies open the door to anyone and sometimes twisted people walk in. However, MLM companies are a filter for those people.

If those Diamonds feel fine speaking about success when they are not an example, I'm sure they will eventually be exposed and used by people like you as arguments to tell the world why someone should not do this business.

What I do know is of people who qualified Diamond and kept on growing. They also speak about success and they stand behind their words. It is those people who I choose to listen, instead to opinionated people like you.

Do YOU know what it takes to be a diamond?

I believe I do. One of my very best friends is a Diamond.

>Are YOU going to be a diamond?

I believe I will. I am a Platinum in it's way to becoming a founder's Platinum with a business that's growing strong. I just don't see a reason why I could not qualify if I keep on working.

I'm making enough money to be able to recommend to others that they do the same.

Do YOU think your prices are competitive?

Not all products, but most. Compare Artistry products with others similar in quality (compare apples to apples) and you'll quickly see that yes, prices are competitive.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artistry

>If you honestly answered yes to any of those, then go ahead and take rocket or bridgett's challenge on my blog.

I'm not interested in proving to you absolutely anything.

There are good doctors, bad doctors and average doctors. Good lawyers, bad layers and average lawyers. Good prospects, bad prospects and average prospects.

Go ahead and focus on the average and the bad. I will focus on the good prospects. That's what I've been doing and I've been growing my business just fine.

>Put you faith in your "business" to the test.

That's what I do every day.

rocket said...

"The money they would make in the speaking circuit would not pay for their investment. "

You need to do some research, my friend. Obviously the information control has worked on you. Drop me an email and I can show you that this is not as minimal a problem as you would like to believe. Amway themsle==elf has admitted that some leaders make more money from functions and motivation than from product movement.

Thanks for keeping my streak alive for IBO's who talk a bunch but will not go through the trouble of verifying their own claims.

That's fine, any prospects you approach will likely find this out for themselves.

That and your unrealistic pricing problem. Your leaders have been asking for years to have them be more competitive.

Nice business that "you own".

Sergio said...

They make money in functions and motivation materials... but if your Diamond who bought the position is no longer Diamond because is networks fell apart, how on earth will he make money on functions and motivation material if he doesn't have an organization to sell the materials to?

The money they pay for speaking alone will never pay enough to buy a Diamond position.

You obviously don't use your brain.

Anonymous said...

I'm really disappointed in this series of blogs (I guess that's what the comments are called). This just seems to be a contest between IBOFB, rocket and sergio as to who can be the most insulting and everything is just personal opinion after Tom Morris' post.